High TA, CYA, Low FAC and Trying To Understand This All!!!

by Myra
(San Antonio, Texas)

The water looks a little more blue in the pics

The water looks a little more blue in the pics

The water looks a little more blue in the pics

First of all you are a God-send! I have been researching all your advice to the place where it kind of is making some sense for a new, never before pool owner like me. Bought a home in Dec (San Antonio, TX) with pool its a plaster/marcite pool, 9441 gallon pool, has DE filter had been using pool tabs, but this week we stopped. I shocked once a few days ago, when it was not reading any chlorine and it had been raining, etc. Readings today from pool store:


FAC 1
TAC1
CYA 100 (before taking the water sample we drained some water, backwashed, etc and refilled, this 100 may be higher I know :( since they read only to 100.
TA 140
PH 7.4
TDS 650
phosphates 500

The pool water looks blue, clear-ISH ... not sparking clear. Our pool is shaded 95% of the day by palms and oak trees (yes, OAK trees!!! the past month I've been a slave to dropping leaves and pollen, I daily, religiously clean out the pool and have a polaris going, etc, seems to be getting better, still some pollen falling here and there, I have 4 girls that swim daily about 3 hrs more or less)

What do I do first to get my levels where they should be, especially CYA, and TA, FAC?
I did purchase liquid chlorine, was told by pool store to add muriatic acid 15 oz and retest in 3 hrs.

I feel overwhelmed! and I don't have the $$ to hire a pool person- I'm it. My husband has little time for this as well :( How do I approach my pool levels? what first? Do I drain again? the pool lady said the CYA sticks to the sides of the pool and I may need to acid wash to lower the levels???? please tell me that is not the case?




Thanks for the question Myra and for the readings. It makes life so much easier.

First, DO NOT add any more chemicals to the water. Your FC will not hold because of the high CYA and here's why. The range is 30 - 50ppm. As the CYA increases through using Trichlor tabs and Tirchlor granular chlorine the FC needs to increase as well. If you allow the CYA to get to 100ppm, you need to run the chlorine at 7 - 8ppm for the chlorine to be effective. When the CYA gets this high the only way to reduce it is a partial drain and refill. There's no chemical to reduce the CYA. If your CYA is at 100ppm, and the range is 30 - 50ppm, then by draining 1/2 of the water and refilling it you'll drop the CYA to 50ppm. You will need to drain 2/3 of the water, refill, FILTER for 24 hours, retest everything and then start making adjustments.

To clear up this size pool should only cost you about $20 - $30 in chemicals. I can't calculate the water because I don't know the rates, but the chemicals are easy.

There are only 2 things you need to concern yourself with right now and that's having a working filter and getting the CYA to 30ppm with a partial drain and refill. No algaecides, clarifiers, phosphate removers (which are useless unless you had a bag of fertilizer thrown into your pool).

I would encourage you to know the TA and pH of the fill water. If they're high you'll be adding that to the pool which will cause the pool's TA and pH to increase. Simply bring them down with a bit of acid. If the fill water TA and pH are low then add bicarb. It's that simple.

You can NEVER get a good chemical reading 3 hours after making an adjustment, and here's why. The pool flow is calculated in gallons per minute (GPM). This is the filter water loop from the skimmer and bottom drain, through the pipes, through the filter, and back to the pool through the returns. This entire flow is normally 30 GPM. Now let's calculate this out. 30 GPM x 60 minutes an hour = 1800 gallons of filtered water per hour. After 3 hours you've filtered about 5400 gallons of water. 3 x 1800 = 5400. This is only 1/2 of your pool capacity. What happens if you test from a non-treated area of the pool? You're going to get a false reading and then you'll make another adjustment with false data. You've just doubled on the adjustment. Not good. You MUST wait for 1 full turn-over of the water which is normally about 8 - 10 hours, THEN you retest and make another adjustment if needed.

I've never heard of CYA sticking to the pool surface and then needing an acid wash. I've taken care of and cleared up and balanced hundreds of pools since 1999 and have never heard that one. Your situation is fairly straight forward. 2/3 drain and refill, FILTER for 24 hours, test the FC, CYA, TA, pH, and CH and make the right adjustments. I have no idea what the readings will be after the new refill but it'll be easy to take care of. Once the new water goes in you'll be swimming in 4 days and have only given the pool store a few dollars.

Get the CYA, TA and pH in line first. CYA should be 30ppm. TA is 80 - 120ppm and pH is 7.2 - 7.8. Your water is probably hard so no need to add anything there. Then shock the pool a couple of times with liquid chlorine. It's 1 gallon per 10k gallons to increase the FC 10ppm. Your pool is 9400 gallons so 1 gallon per application will do the job.

Broadcast around the perimeter, sweep, and FILTER. Then add another gallon next following evening. Allow the FC to come down to 6 - 7ppm and you'll be ready to swim. Remember that it's not only clearing up the pool but balancing the chemicals. Once you know the ranges it's fairly easy to keep them there without algaecides or clarifiers. I cleared up a cloudy pool AND balanced it in 2 days for $4.50 and that video is on my home page. Very easy to do and you can do it too when you have the right information.

To post a reply, or if you have a similar question, you can see your post on the Q&A page in the "Cyanuric Acid (CYA)" category.

Check back to this post for updates or answers.

If you feel your situation is more complex and want immediate assistance (within 24 hrs) you can make a donation of your choice and I'll answer your questions by phone.

Have I helped you find a solution to your pool problems? Did this information help you? Please consider making a donation to help keep this site going. Thank you.









Have a great Summer.

Robert

Comments for High TA, CYA, Low FAC and Trying To Understand This All!!!

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Jul 07, 2015
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High CyA
by: First Year Pool Owner

Is partially draining the pool the only way to balance the cya? Our level is approximately 250-260 ppm right now.... Is it safe to swim in?




Thanks for the question. Chlorine's effectiveness is dependent upon the CYA. 50ppm CYA seems extreme as most dependable test kits can only test to 100ppm, and some may go as high as 120ppm. If you've been using dichlor or trichlor granular chlorine you must stop. This may be the reason the CYA is that high. The best remedy for high CYA is a drain and refill. In your case it'll need to be a full refill.

CYA is different than muriatic acid. MA is very caustic and will burn while CYA simply helps the chlorine hold better in the sun and heat. All things being considered the pool would be safe to swim but I'd suspect your chlorine's effectiveness is non-existent. I'd encourage you to do a full drain/refill and start over once again.

If you feel your situation is more complex than this, I do phone and/or SKYPE consultations. It makes things go much faster and many people have found it extremely beneficial, saving them time and money in the long run. All your questions will be answered. I have nothing to sell you so you know I'm not bias. If you purchase a personal phone consult you'll get all 3 eBooks for free.

Pool Consultation

Clear Blue Pool eBook

How To Clear Up A Green Pool eBook

Swimming Pool Resources

Hope this helps and have a great Summer.

Robert

Apr 24, 2015
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Thank you!
by: myra, SA texas

Robert, Thank you so much for your advice and your sharing your knowledge/expertise. After constant googling and online research, all of your advice seem to sincerely come from a place to help people manage their pools, safely, most economically, and wisely. You are genuine in your desire to help and break it all down in a simple, understandable way. I truly appreciate that! My CYA is still high, BUT we will be draining the pool, have some calls out to recommended certified pool people. I will recommend your site, to everyone I know and darn I wish you lived in San Antonio!!!! :)

Apr 20, 2015
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HIGH TA (not anymore), low FAC (not anymore), but.... even higher CYA than I originally thought! :(
by: Anonymous

Hi Robert! Thank you for your prompt response! Im the overwhelmed pool owner, in San Antonio "High TA, CYA ... no longer low FAC" Trying to not throw up my hands in defeat. I went back to a pool store that is able to read CYA over 100 these are my readings: This was after some draining of the pool yesterday and running the filter all night.

FAC 10
TAC 10
CH 430
CYA 300 (UGH!!)
TA 120
PH 7.8
copper/Iron 0
TDS 800
PHO 500

I know you advised on a 1/2 drain, with my 9440 gallon pool and the CYA being 300 (not 100) do I have to drain the whole pool? How? I guess I will research how to safely drain. The CA is 430 does that matter? I don't have a heater FYI. I know you mentioned this was easy to fix, I feel scared to drain my pool, do I backwash and drain? the readings are so different from my original post. FYI I ordered the Taylor kit your recommended, cuz I WILL master the balancing of my pool! I sooooo appreciate your sharing your advise.




Thanks for the follow up. I would advise you to get a qualified pool tech to drain your pool. Get a written detailed contract if something does go wrong. It is risky but there are ways to mitigate the risks. 300 CYA is just way too high. A complete drain and refill is in order. The tech will do a drain either by WASTE on the multiport valve or use a submersible pump. Many of them can push 50 gallons per minute so your pool can be drained in about 3.5 - 4 hours.

It's good that you're getting the Taylor K-2006 kit. Go to my YouTube, Clean Pool & Spa, channel. I have detailed videos that show how to take all the tests.

The question says "CA" but I will assume that means CH for calcium hardness. 430ppm is a bit high. The range is 150 - 250ppm. If your fill water is hard there's really nothing you can do about it short of getting pool water trucked in. You can keep the pH at 7.2 -7.4 to reduce the chances of getting a calcium ring around the water line. This keeps the water a bit more acidic. And DON"T use calcium hypochlorite for chlorine. As the name implies, it's calcium and you don't want to add more to the water. Use liquid chlorine.

Don't throw your hands up. Once you have the new water in the pool it'll be just a matter of days before you're swimming again. And remember I'm available for consultations as well. Due to the amount of questions I receive this time of year it may take a couple of days to get back to you.

Pool Consultation

Robert

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